Talk:Duke of Valentinois
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
By way of explanation, I've been removing this title from the succession boxes of the Princes of Monaco who held it for their entire lives since it's simply one of twenty-some titles held by the Grimaldi family (see Sovereign Prince of Monaco). However, I left it on Albert I, Princess Charlotte, and Rainier III since the two princes only held it for part of their lives, and Princess Charlotte was given it by Albert I, rather than simply inheriting it with a bunch of other titles. — Dan | Talk 00:37, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Isn't the title, as it is the rank of Duke, significant enough to merit inclusion? 184.108.40.206 20:37, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Edition Duke of Valentinois
Please don´t revert the editions, thi editions have verificable and true sources and references and all of them is in consonance with policy of Wikipedia. I suggset you, help to bet the article without partial sense but with true references and true references in pos from hitorical knowledge.
Thank you and be educated.
- Regrettably, it is clear that you do not have sufficient competence in the English language to contribute text to English Wikipedia. You have tried repeatedly, and your efforts are appreciated, but much of your writing in English is incomprehensible -- even when it is obvious that you are using a translating machine. Nor may you copy and move text written in English by other authors unless that usage is allowed by applicable copyright law. Unfortunately, you can only expect to have your contributions of text reverted, not only because it would take too long to translate, but because it is often unclear what you are attempting to say and doubtful that sources can be footnoted which document the accuracy of your contribution. Thankyou for trying, but please stop and contribute in ways where your competence is better, e.g. photos, art or in French or Italian Wikipedia. FactStraight (talk) 00:15, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
A favor for all of us
In pursuit to get a good article, well referenced and historically real from historical point, please don´t erase once at once at once by hiden interest. Duke of Valentinois is a simple title of Kingdom of France, it was instituted for Cesar Borgia and It is not the Count of Valentinois title which is ancient title based in a ancient Roman Empire Charge.
The redaction of this article must not cause disturbing in persons which pretend the title in one or another ways. The article is treated from the historical true point and it has nothing to see with Borgias or Grimaldis.
Front the afraid of any pretender the article is very clear. First Duke of Valentinois is not same that Duke of Valentinois jure uxoris that was delivered at Goyon Matignoc Grimaldi which was carried by last time inside French laws by Albert I. Duke of Valentinois delivered at Cesar Borgia was an ancient title instituted in two ways, inside French peerage and under Apostolic Authority and it is so different than Grimaldis title. The article is being explained step under historical true facts.
For that reason I ask you for intelligence, education, respect for other people labours and of course you can help to do best but you don´t disturbe the article or looking conflict with me for. And for that the article will be rewrite or remake how much times is need.
- Please see comments in the section above, which apply to your most recent contributions. FactStraight (talk) 12:49, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Answers to multiple excuse without foundation arise by users
Ladies and Gentlemen, excuses without foundation have been arised by your, I explain:
First: House of Valois is a cadet branche of House of Capet. House of Valois is descendant of Charles Capet, Count of Valois who was younger brother of Philip Capet, best knew as Philip the Beauty or Philip the King of Iron. Second: House of Bourbon is a cadet branche of House of Capet. House of Bourbon is descendant of Louis Capet or Luois XI of France, throu his younger brother Robert, Count of Clermont, who married with Beatrix of Bourbon. Third: The title of Prince of France in France is not exclusive from Royal family. The exclusive title of Royal Family is Prince of the Blood; nevertheless, the title of Prince of the blood was be able to be delivered to a speciphic people choose by the King. Fourth: The title of Prince of Prance could be in two senses, highest Dukes were in fact, Princes of France and also existing some Princes foreigner who were Princes of France. Fifth: Dukes of France weren´t all of them equals, in this sense some had a highest rank than others but also in this sense, Dukes of France were superiors in rank to Subsidiaries Princes from France, it´s for this reason that Duke of Valentinois of Grimaldi was always subject to the effective Prince of Monaco, no one more was be able to carried the title and for that reason existed the rule Juro Uxoris. Sixth: Dauphiny was part of Holy Roman Empire and formed part of negotiation from carolingians with Holy See, House of Albon and Dauphiny were vassals of Holy See for centuries and this was the problem with France. This land ending passed to France with negotiations between Louis XII and Alexander VI. Septh: The noble titles just were noble titles from XIII and XIV centuries, before they just were charges coming form Roman Empires and their character was just like Major Militar or Gobernos Militar or Civil Ruler. It just until the noble titles were transformed in surrenders of the Kings this were delivered like titles with royal Patents, before noble titles were transformed little by little in vassals territories with authority for create coind and leave armies served to the King; nevertheless, many powerful vassals were more strongest than the King and this was combat by Capets and Valois and Bourbons; also by many other dinasties.
Thank you and please don´t disturbe more, be gentles and educated.
- You are not giving refs for your claims. You must give a reference, which includes page numbers for books and long papers. You are also copying material without attribution. Without references your claims mean nothing. Everything you claim must be verified. Bgwhite (talk) 22:37, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
other time edition is erased without a logic reason, ladies and gentlemen this page is not a personal page about Grimaldi´s family, it is a Wikipedia page about history
Well, like i can see the wikiusers of always have disrupting for all, following doing the same. So It´s necessary putt o this rouble a name and that name is Duke of Valentiinois and Grimaldi´s, a name for a novel. Consequently and in pursuit to solve the problem, I´ll try to be cleared for all, for the users, for the Magazines, for the Royal Houses, for lineages, for business families, for entrepreneurs and Santodomingo.
One: A noble title is given by a Kingdom. A noble title is not given by a Republic.
Two: Honré II received title of Duke of Valentinois because he committed trait ion against Spain. Spain was his Metropoli.
Three: Honré II Grimaldi lost all his Spanish and Italian honours and titles but he was Duke of Valentinois, peer of France and vassal of France.
Four: Honoré IV Grimaldi had no sons. He had just one daughter, Louise Hipolithe Grimaldi, Duchess of Valentinois Suo Jure.
Five: In pursuit to conserve Monaco, Honoré IV Grimaldi concerts a marrying between his daughter and Jaqcues Goyon Matignon, who was authorized to use the title of Duke of Valentinois Jure Uxoris just after signed the contract.
Six: With the end of Empire of Napoleon III and rising of third Republic of France, all noble titles of France left to exist. That means Duke of Valentinois like all titles of Nobility in France don´t exists in fact.
Seven: Albert I is obliged to accept a constitutional Monarchy and the separation of economical patrimony of Grimaldi of the Monaco Patrimony like state. From that moment Duke of Valentinois is part of Crown of Monaco.
Eight: Louis II had no sons and then appeared Charlotte Louvet. It had never proved that Charlotte were daughter of Louis but today that could be proved with a genetically test made by a very serious and responsible institution, impartial and liked for history.
Nine: Charlotte is adopted against Constitution of France. Raymond Poincare committed a violation against Constitution of France and against French laws because he was not be able to restore or authorized the use of a Noble title of France; consequently Charlotte Louvet was not Duchess of Valentinois per se. The last legitimate Duke was Albert I.
Ten: Pierre of Polignac was Duke of Valentinois by marrying or Juro Uxoris. In that moment is adopted the colour magenta in the coat of arms of Monaco.
Eleven: The four Republic of France instituted by Charles d´Gaul confirmed that in France doesn´t exist titles of Nobility and nobles. Consequently, Rainier of Monaco is not Duke of Valentinois but the Crown of Monaco yes because is a state patrimony.
Twelve: Even Caroline Grimaldi is the Elder daughter of Rainier, she is not the heir of Monaco because her younger brother Albert, according the Monaco Constitution and treaties with France. So, she was no really the Duchess of Valentinois and she is not.
Thirteen: Couples of Caroline and Stephanie are not nobles, for that reason their sons and daughter are not nobles; excepting Alexandra of Hanover. Consequently, the grandsons of Caroline and Stephanie are not and will not be nobles just presunt heirs, thing that really has no significance.
Fourteen: Rainier of Monaco was be able to entitled or turn noble at his grandsons but he didn´t. Why he didn´t?.
Fifteen: Andrea Casiraghi was never a Prince just presunt heir and Caroline knew this; consequently is no understanding that she had promote that thing. She knew his younger brother was the heir and he had and have heirs. Consequently Santodomingo should have known that too. Tatiana Santodomingo would never be Duchess of Valentinois neither Princess of Monaco.
Sixteen: We know Julio Mario Santodomingo Junior was married with a British Duke´s daughter and he must know he will never a British Duke neither his sons because Dukedoms in Great Britain are matter of State, Dukes in Great Britain are “Your Highness” and they are inheritance just by male or agnatic lines and when this not happen the dukes return to the Crown.
Seventeen: The explanation is so cleared, easy to understand for all interested. There are no excuses for don´t understand. Noble titles of France don´t exist, from all Royal titles until Duke of Valentinois. Nor Albert II is Duke of Valentinois per se neither pretenders at the throne of France. Albert II Grimaldi is Duke of Valentinois just because he is the constitutional Prince of Monaco and that is just the theme.
Eighteen: Today and according amendments and treaties with France, sons of Albert II Grimaldi, Gabrielle and Jaqcues can be heirs without distinction. They of both are effective Princes of Monaco and their sons too, because from 2012 Princess Gabrielle has the constitutional power to transmit her Rank at her future sons.
Nineteen: Today, Monaco doesn´t need any title of France in pursuit to justify its existence, lest the Duke of Valentinois, because Monaco is a Micro nation with Independence of France and it is an state recognized by international institutions; what for an inexistent title of Duke of Valentinois?.
Consequently and for all are disrupting all investigation, don´t disrupting more my labour, I am constructing a well historical articles and referencing each one of them. Wikipedia could be a great encyclopaedia if people has personal interest left to disrupting because its own interest.
This post is to easy to understand until for children. I suppose the adults are able to understand something so simple.
Thanks and be educated.